Page 1 of 1

Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:44 pm
by rbruce25
I have been a serviio user for not very long, I purchased the Pro Version maybe about 1-1/2 years ago. I have never had and issue with serviio. I love the Media Server. But now I do have an issue.

I upgrade from Serviio 1.5.2 to 1.6x and since then my Acronis Backup on that Machine fails. Now I know everyone is going to tell me this is not possible, but I have did quite a bit of testing and this is what I have found.

System - Backup
AMD FX-6300 Processor
8 GM DDR 3 1600 Ram
1 SATA 320 GB (OS) Drive
4 SATA 6GB 2TB 7200 RPM Drives (1 drive for each Computer)
1 SATA 6GB 4TB 7200 RPM Drive (Serviio - Backup Drive)
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drive (SWAP and TEMP Drive)

System - Serviio Media Server
AMD FX-6300 Processor
8 GM DDR 3 1600 Ram
1 SATA 80 GB (OS) Drive
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drives (Audio and Video)
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drive (Misc - Backup Drive)
1 SATA 6GB 500GB 7200 RPM Drive (SWAP and TEMP Drive)

The issue with backup only started after the upgrade from 1.5.2 to 1.6x. No Hardware issue all drive passed Smart and Hard Drive Diagnostic on both compuyers, drives are 1 year or less old, no event view errors or warning on either machine.

I reformat all drive on the Serviio Media Server and restore back prior to the upgrade from the backup re-ran the backup and the Acronis Backup completes successfull, upgraded to 1.6 and the backup fails after 22 hours, prior to that the backup only took 4 to 6 hours to complete (668 GB of data). the funny part (well not funny just interesting) is that if I disable the Serviio Service and kill all the FFMGEG - 32 task the backup completes with 1.6 install but not active or running. The next part is Serviio is running on the OS Drive and my Media is on a completely separate drive. Since I do not know this and need to ask, Does the Serviio Service Lock the Drive?

I have had to manually run my backup for that machine by disabling serviio, but that is not a very good option so I have had to revert back to version 1.5.2 so that my backups run.

So what I need to know is
Does the Serviio Service Lock the Drive?
Can I use Task Scheduler to Stop Serviio and it Process during the night so backup can run and restart after backup completes?
Is this an issue anyone else has come across with version 1.6?

Thanks in advance if there is no solution (will reverting back to 1.5.2 fixes the issue)

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:32 pm
by atc98092
Where is your Transcoding folder located? If it's on the media drive, that might be the issue. However, I have to admit that is strange behavior. Most backup products have a way to backup locked or in-use files. I haven't had any experience with Acronis, however.

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:19 pm
by zip
Hang on, there were 32 ffmpeg tasks?????? Were you playing something or just library updates? Or it it possible there are 32 streams being viewed on your server?

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:31 pm
by atc98092
zip wrote:Hang on, there were 32 ffmpeg tasks?????? Were you playing something or just library updates? Or it it possible there are 32 streams being viewed on your server?


I think he was referring to the way the process is listed in Windows Task Manager. Since it's a 32 bit application Windows shows it the exe name with a *32 tacked on the end. :)

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:28 pm
by rbruce25
I have a a SATA 6GB 500GB drive for transcode (Separate Drive)

System - Serviio Media Server
AMD FX-6300 Processor
8 GM DDR 3 1600 Ram
1 SATA 80 GB (OS) Drive
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drives (Audio and Video) - this is where all my media is stored
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drive (Misc - Backup Drive) - Operating system Temp Drive (as set in Advance System Settings)
1 SATA 6GB 500GB 7200 RPM Drive (SWAP and TEMP Drive) - this is my transcode drive

Yes I know this is strange, and yes acronis supports backing up locked files, it uses Microsoft VSS which is part of Windows 7 OS. And you are correct I only had 1 FFMPEG * 32 process running at the time but under 1.6x I found that I could have as many a 6 FFMPEG *32, but that did not concern me as I know that this is so that you can resume play back on video files.

I have added ServiioService.exe to the exception list in acronis, but it appears that is has to do with Microsoft VSS and Serviio and not Arconis. I have created a Virtual machine in VMware to test, but I am afraid this test would not be validate as VMware does not support Microsoft VSS as it uses it own property driver. I have the hardware to build a separate machine and run them side by side, I am in the process of trying that, should have results this weekend (03/10/2016 to 03/13/2016). One other note the backup runs in stages - Drive C: ls backed up at 02:00AM, and Drive E: is backed up at 04:00AM, Drive D: (MISC -Backup Drive) and Drive F: (SWAP and TEMP) drive are not backed up. I am the only one that would use the remote feature and or the Media Server and I am usually not on the Media Server at 02:00AM (kind why I choose that time).

I am working fine under 1.5.2, and I am rather not UN-happy about this, I kind of do like the new interface and controls. really did not get a chance to play with 1.6x but I will have plenty of time this weekend.

Drive Config and Utilization.jpg
Drive Config and Utilization while Stream 2 Movies
Drive Config and Utilization.jpg (132.47 KiB) Viewed 4729 times

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:02 pm
by rbruce25
Finished build of new Serviio Server (Media-Center)

Server specs
AMD FX-6300 Processor
8 GM DDR 3 1600 Ram
1 SATA 80 GB (OS) Drive
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drives (Audio and Video) - this is where all my media is stored
1 SATA 6GB 1TB 7200 RPM Drive (Misc - Backup Drive) - Operating system Temp Drive (as set in Advance System Settings)
1 SATA 6GB 500GB 7200 RPM Drive (SWAP and TEMP Drive) - this is my transcode drive

The only difference is the motherboard the original server is an ASUS and the clone is a gigabyte motherboard.

The New server is running version 1.6x and the Original Server is running 1.5.2

What I have been able to determine is that it is not Acronis but it is Microsoft VSS and FFMPEG*32 in conjunction with the Serviio Service. What I have been able to determine (cannot get logs as the backup crashes before it writes the log) is because Serviio keeps the FFMPEG*32 active to allow video playback to resume and Microsft VSS tries to lock the file to backup, at which Serviiio Service spawns another process as it thinks that the previous process has become corrupted or inaccessible and releases the memory which in turn causes Microsoft VSS to invalidate the file and attempts to lock the next file in series. This continues until Acronis Backup option are reached (retry on failed) which is set to 1 day (24 Hours) an then fails the job. As what I can determine with version 1.5.2 of Serviio, the service does not keep FFMPEG*32 active, it only spawns on FFMPEG*32 thread per video file and when the scope of the video file is lost the FFMPEG*32 process terminates, until the video file is loaded again.

I have reduced the time out in the Backup to 1 hour and I can repeat the failure every time. I am trying to get the logs, but Acronis is crashing the job before it writes the file, I am working with Acronis (a $29.99 incident cost) to get the crashed data, as they put it "it is not an error of Acronis and they cannot support it" but they are willing to help me get the logs for a fee. I have already paid the fee and do not worry as I had other issues to fix so this kind of worked out for me as i get Acronis to look at the logs and fix my other issues.

One other thing I only have one license, so I used that on both servers, do I need to purchase a second license. I do not mind buying another license as i kind of like having the other server, I do not need or want to access it from the internet, just an internal failover server. What the heck i just buy another I using it anyway, beside i love Serviio and a second license with worth it.

Thanks

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:04 pm
by DenyAll
Serviio keeps the FFMPEG*32 active to allow video playback to resume
.. but only for as long as the file takes to fully transcode. Once fully transcoded, ffmpeg finishes - so unless your backup is occurring during or shortly after a file being streamed this won't be the cause.

If this is coming into play, I presume it's the temporary transcode file that Acronis cannot lock (this is the file that ffmpeg will be writing to). Can you see what happens if you exclude this folder from the backup (no point backing it up anyway).

If that doesn't help, given the unique mix of software in play here, your earlier thought may be the best approach:
Can I use Task Scheduler to Stop Serviio and it Process during the night so backup can run and restart after backup completes?
Yes. You would need to:

  • Stop the Serviio service (net stop command)
  • Kill any residual ffmpeg processes (taskkill command)
  • Wait
  • Run your backup
  • Start the Serviio service (net start command)
If you are keen :) , the first two steps could be replaced with a Serviio API command which will shutdown Serviio gracefully, and (from 1.6.1) ensure all ffmpeg processes are killed.

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:06 am
by rbruce25
I was hoping I could do that, I can create a pre-backup task in Acronis and then a post-backup task after the backup has finished. That is fairly simple to do. Secondly I have tried to exclude the Serviio Files and the FFMPEG files from backup, but since I cannot be certain of all files involved it will be a hit and miss trial. I believe that your comment is correct as it is either the trans-code (FFMPEG) that has locked the file open to write to and Microsoft VSS cannot unlock or create a virtual copy to backup because it is still open for writing. But I question that as i am not using the Serviio server at 4:00 AM, and I am somewhat certain that all trans-coding has been completed. Also all of the file I use are MPEG-2 DVD compatible and all my devices support the native format except the Roku N1100 as per my other post of creating a specific profile to get it to work. I have the logs but they are to large to post, what Acronis has been able to determine is that even through my trans-code drive ( F: ) it is still locking a file on ( E: ) my media drive, which is the target drive for backup, it does not release it because my devices are still active, what I mean still active is I never turn them off, I may exit the app on the device but never close the connection to the server from the device, this in fact would leave the file open, even at 4:00 AM. I am testing a theory of closing the device connection and seeing if that does in fact close the file in question and Acronis will then complete successfully. To be honest that is what I should do anyway but just a little lazy as i do not want to have to open the app to stream a movie. :lol:

Thanks for all the comments I think I got this one as it is not Serviio as the cause. It is FFMPEG and Microsoft VSS, I think I have a happy medium between them that will solve my issue, closing the apps prior to backup. :lol:

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:27 am
by Rosales_Network
DO not run any backups while you are accessing your data Acronis might see its currently being access and it might skip or fail it.
do you have a schedule for your backups?

Re: Acronis Backup and New Serviio Service

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:40 pm
by rbruce25
Yes I have a schedule

Drive C: backup starts at 2:00 AM and finishes at 3:00 AM
Drive E: backup starts at 4:00 AM and finishes at 11:00 AM

Drive D: and Drive F: are not backed up (they are temp drives)

I would not be accessing the media at 4:00 AM, also I leave for work at 8:00 AM so once again I would not be accessing the media, kind of why I chosen those time frames.

I have created a Task to shutdown Serviio and restart serviio after backup completes, it will run tonight. Also I have made sure all devices have disconnected.

I believe this will work but needs to be fine tuned alittle after, then I should be good to go.

Thanks everyone your all great help.