Lossless Audio Playback on Samsung BD-C6900

Pls explain how to use Serviio to stream lossless audio music or movie files with audio encoded in FLAC, APE, Dolby TruHD, DTS HD, etc. from PC to Samsung BD-C6900 player for playback via its 7.1 analog RCA ports to Onkyo Audio Receiver, which doesn't support HDMI 1.4 and Dolby TrueHD & DTS HD decoding & bit streaming via HDMI? Should they be transcoded to LPCM, or its different for each lossless format? Any examples?

[zip]

Depends if the player has optical out. Not sure if it can stream multichannel audio through HDMI. If the receiver doesnt support lossless multichannel audio you'd have to transcode everything to ac3 (5.1) or aac

Hi Petr,

Yes, this player supports LPCM playback. It does have optical out, and can also bitstream digital multichannel through HDMI. Plus, it can decode digital multichannel to analog 7.1 and output via analog 7.1 RCA. This is my question, since my Onkyo Receiver can't decode anything via HDMi, and I don't want to transcode to ac3 to comply with S/PDIF throughput limit, but it has 7.1 Analog RCA In. So, how to use Serviio to play Multichannel LPCM converted by the player via 7.1 analog RCA? The whole reason to use BD-C-series Samsung players is there ability to output via 7.1 RCA, since plenty of older audio receivers have 7.1 RCA inputs, and no HDMI decoding support.

[zip]

post ffmpeg -i of the file.

If the player/Serviio can play it natively then it's up to the player to decode it. Otherwise Serviio will transcode it to ac3 (most likely)

How I can instruct Serviio transcode Flac Multichannel to LPCM Multichannel and output it to the player instead of AC3? Is it possible to upgrade Serviio UI to give users a choice of available transcoding formats for a given original file format as a Dropdown Menu, so that the user can select desired output format?

Another thing, is it possible for Serviio to transcode Flac Stereo to LPCM Multichannel on the fly and output to the player?

[zip]

post ffmpeg -i of the file.

As an example, this is ffmpeg -i command result for a 6-track Audio CD copy as per its CUE sheet, encoded in Flac:

REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK: 0.00
Duration: 00:36:40.00, bitrate: 2362 kb/s
Stream #0:0: Audio: flac, 44100 Hz, 5.1(side), s16

MediaInfo printout:

Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size : 620 MiB
Duration : 36mn 40s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 2 362 Kbps
Cover : Yes
Cover type : Cover (front)
Cover MIME : image/jpeg
cuesheet : REM GENRE Disco / REM DATE 1977 / REM COMMENT "cd-res vinyl rip//O�O~ / Upmix by EdWKo 2010" / PERFORMER ...

Audio
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration : 36mn 40s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 362 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Replay gain peak : 0.000000
Stream size : 619 MiB (100%)
Writing library : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)

Basically, I need Samsung BD-C player profile revision that will support ANY flac transcoding into LPCM of the same number of channels. Ideally, it should also transcode Stereo Flac to 6.1 LCPM. I can confirm, 2 channel LPCM plays OK via LAN on this player, and multichannel LPCM plays OK from a BD disk, but I'm looking for a solution & profile to play multichannel LPCM via LAN, since the player doesn't support Flac.

[zip]

the C/D profile currently transcodes FLAC to LPCM, although I'm not sure if it supports multichannel. Can you enable detailed logging and post the ffmpeg command which is used for transcoding?

For 2-channel Flac I'm getting:

[FFMPEGWrapper] Invoking FFmpeg to transcode audio file: L:\Downloads\Torrents\Zlatna kolekcija.flac
[ProcessExecutor] Starting C:\Program Files\Serviio\bin\\..\lib/ffmpeg.exe -i L:\Downloads\Torrents\Zlatna kolekcija.flac -y -ar 44100 -ac 2 -f s16be Q:\NetDisk Data\Serviio\Serviio\transcoding-temp-221-LPCM.stf

For 5.1 channel Flac:

[AudioDeliveryEngine] Cannot get media info for transcoded file Soli.flac: Unsupported LPCM format of file Soli.flac. Only 44100 / 48000 Hz and Mono / Stereo files are allowed.

So it looks like that Samsung C/D profile must be amended for transcoding 5.1 Flac to 5.1 LPCM, if ffmpef able to do it at all. I don't see any transcoded 5.1 channel file saved. Samsung says "No files available to playback". But it can play 5.1 LPCM from BD disk for sure via 5.1 analog RCA and optical.

Other issues:

- Serviio can't read multifile Cue sheets, so no playlist shows up, just a single file, even if all files from that Cue sheet are played normally in sequence
- For single song Flacs (no Cue sheet), Serviio shows disproportionally small progress bar compare to its overall length, and the progress bar resets for the next song in the same folder
- can't fast forward or back a flac file being played or stopped

So Petr, I wonder if you have any music in 5.1 flac, and can try playing it on ANY player via Serviio, since it doesn't seems to be Samsung specific issue, but rather Serviio player profile setup issue. Were anyone else able to play multichannel lossless Flac or APE transcoded to LPCM via Serviio? Did you see CUE tracks list as well?

[zip]

the 5.1 error message you are getting is there due to DLNA spec only supporting 2 channel LPCM. Thus Serviio doesn't support it.

Cue sheets are not supported either.

While this is interesting explanation, it can be translated as "I don't want to fix this issue", since all specs ever created are the result of someone's progressive work on accomplishing set tasks no-one else accomplished thus far. Not sure either, what device this message comes from - it looks straight from Serviio. Impression is, ones a problem occurs, you claim its "unsupported", meaning there is no need to do anything? No program "supports" anything, until developers make it to do things.

May be you need to read this. Time to move to Mezzmo... I don't have this message with it, transcodes normally, but plays slow so far - hope will be fixed.

[zip]

Yes that message comes from Serviio, which checks if the output file follows DLNA spec. If it does not it doesn't send the stream. DLNA only supports 41/48k mono/stereo LPCM streams at the moment and I assume most devices follow the spec (meaning it'd refuse to display/play the content). If you find software that goes around the specs and works for you then I suggest you stick with it.

If you're talking of hardware streaming devices, your assumption is wrong. Any specs in this area become quickly outdated, and mostly indicate minimum performance limits. So your explanation is artificial, as all HW makers continuously improve FW responding to customer woos. And since DLNA sets min to 1 or 2-channel LCPM (mostly based on average network performance in a typical household at the time of developing that min spec, and possibly under pressure from CD industry tycoons), Serviio should also support CUE Sheets that come with multitrack 2-channel LPCM CD rips, and its elementary to add such support, since its already available in ffmpeg - just look through the log. In your own forum more and more people ask to support lossless music. And guess what: other devs are a lot more responsive to that. Like Mezzmo devs immediately asking to send samples of CUE sheets for prompt fix instead of "its not supported". May be you should allow users to check if their equipment plays multichannel LPCM instead of setting artificial blocks? Its not "going around" the spec, but rather called "exceeding" minimal requirements and setting higher level that later gets reflected in updated spec versions - approach widely used in this very fast moving industry.

Did you make any notable improvements to Serviio for the last 2 years?

[zip]

Its not "going around" the spec, but rather called "exceeding" minimal requirements and setting higher level that later gets reflected in updated spec versions - approach widely used in this very fast moving industry.

Agree the spec is outdated, but they don't specify minimal requirements - instead they list 4 categories LPCM can be delivered via DLNA protocol (41k mono, 48k mono, 48k mono, 48k stereo). Which of these do you suggest shall I use for multichannel audio?

Feel free to create a ticket to support cuesheets, with attached examples. I can't guarantee when I get the time to look at it though as there are over 100 open tickets atm.

Did you make any notable improvements to Serviio for the last 2 years?

No comment.

I don't have a copy of DLNA Guidelines, so its hard to argue, but can probably find one on the web. What I mean, the whole DLNA thing sets lowest denominators to exchange media sources btw various classes of hardware. At least that was the stated goal, while behind the scene it was probably driven by desire to impose additional DRM restrictions around the law - aiming to sell more obsolete DVD and CD Players, and of course DVDs and CDs, as Sony derives much of its wealth from this bottomless source.

The question is, what developers of free streamers like Serviio have in common with this? Probably because you use base DLNA engine, and Serviio is a GUI around it? Serviio users don't like getting downmixed content ignoring their real hardware. DLNA Guidelines are optional, why don't offer a Checkbox in Prefs for those users who need such compliance due to their limited hardware? Serviio should comply with UpNP AV, not its purposely restrictive DLNA subset. Why a user with expensive Oppo should be artificially forced to get the same low quality content as a user of $10 Walkman CD player?

[zip]

[quote="zamarac17"]
The question is, what developers of free streamers like Serviio have in common with this? /quote]
The fact it'll work on as many devices as possible. Serviio is DLNA server, not UPnP server, thus it follows the spec. Which should hopefully enable it working with as many devices as possible. Obviously if you want to get as much as possible from your HW you might seek some more customized SW, possibly provided by the HW manufacturer (they are the ones you're paying after all).

zamarac17 is just plain rude.

Zip - thank you for writing this great server.

Zip - can a profile be added to transcode multichannel FLAC to AC3 or DTS (-acodec dca -ab 1509k) instead of LPCM?

Thanks

The fact it'll work on as many devices as possible.

And if you add a Checkbox "Use DLNA compliant profile" in Prefs, Serviio will work with exact same number of DLNA devices, plus a large number of UpNP higher end devices, thus making Sergiio audience twice bigger with a little effort (just using UpNP engine).

I think, you incorrectly interpret, what DLNA Compliant means. Its easier to understand if you look at DLNA Certificates for various products on DLNA site. This simply means that given device is able to communicate with other devices via DLNA protocol, when they need it. It does not mean, the device should NOT be able to communicate with other devices via UpNP protocol. For example, my player's Certificate says:

"MEDIA FORMAT INTEROPERABILITY
This product has been tested for compliance and interoperability for the
following media profiles and capabilities
Device Class: DMP
----------------------
Audio LPCM Play / Stop Capable"

That's it! This means, if a low hardware device gets connected, the player can play media from it, if the media is in Mono or Stereo LPCM format as per DLNA Guidelines. However it doesn't demand, if a high end device is connected, the player must NOT play any other format from it apart from Mono or Stereo. The player will simply use UpNP protocol to communicate with such device instead of restrictive DLNA. So, DLNA does not prohibit for compliant devices to also support other protocols.

DLNA compliant mode is and should be offered as a selectable option, but of course Sony can (illegally) offer incentives to developers who purposely remove all other mods of operation except DLNA. Its a lot cheaper than bribe lawmakers in every country around the world to frozen DVD age forever, and they can hide such activity behind "interoperability" scam, while if such law is introduced it will result in public outrage.

I agree that device manufacturers should also offer more advanced streaming servers, because they get paid. However, its a common knowledge that device hardware makers are far less able to concentrate resources and staff on generic PC software, even if they wanted to.

[zip]

Zip - can a profile be added to transcode multichannel FLAC to AC3 or DTS (-acodec dca -ab 1509k) instead of LPCM?

Thanks

Without validating it try:

  Code:

<Audio targetContainer="ac3" aBitrate="1509">
<Matches container="flac" />
</Audio>

EDIT: actually it wont work, see below

How to edit the C/D profile to transcode 5.1 Flac into 5.1 Dolby TrueHD packed into MP4, MP4a, or MKV container, which Samsung can play over LAN (hopefully allowed by DLNA)?